This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on October 8, 2023. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I’m Shannon Bream.
Hamas unleashes a shocking assault on Israel, leaving hundreds dead, an unknown number taken hostage, and a nation stunned. As its allies warn, the world is watching.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States stands with the people of Israel in the face of these terrorist assaults.
(GUNFIRE)
(SCREAMING)
BREAM (voice-over): A stunning escalation in the decades-old conflict, Israel’s prime minister declaring this is war and warns his people it will be long and difficult.
The Israeli military also retaliating at Hezbollah after the Iran-backed terror group fires from the north.
Today, we’ll have the latest the ground and get reaction from Jon Finer, President Biden’s deputy national security adviser, as well as former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.
Plus —
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: The United States obviously is going to stick with Israel.
VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I stick with Israel. The U.S. should be standing with Israel here.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We all stand with the state of Israel.
BREAM: Republican presidential candidates react. We’re one on one with Governor Ron DeSantis in his first network Sunday appearance since announcing his run for president.
Do you worry that some of the culture fights get so much attention that they overshadowed other things that you want to talk about?
All, right now, on “FOX News Sunday”.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): And hello from FOX News in Washington.
Let’s take a look at the broader region where these attacks by Hamas coordinated, widespread and by all accounts a surprise to Israelis and emanating from the Gaza Strip. Let’s look at where the rockets, thousands of them, were fired from here into key cities like Tel Aviv. Israel, of course, has been responding with fire into the Gaza Strip as well.
But it’s not just in the air. On the ground as well, there were scores of attacks coordinated and unleashed. We’ve heard the stories. You’ve seen the videos — attacks going home to home in these communities killing people, taking people hostage now back in the Gaza Strip, which creates a new nightmare for Israel because, essentially, they know their citizens are being held there as they now fire back.
Also this morning, there is a new front as to the north, Hezbollah has been exchanging fire with Israel. That’s a new front. All of this comes as the prime minister has warned this is going to be a long conflict and not easily resolved.
We have team coverage with Lucas Tomlinson at the White House and Trey Yingst on the ground in southern Israel.
We begin this morning with Trey. Hello.
TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, good morning.
A massacre of unimaginable proportions took place in Israel yesterday, with more than 600 Israeli civilians and soldiers killed by Palestinian militants, according to Israeli media.
We do know those militants crossed into southern Israel yesterday morning on the backs of pickup trucks and motorcycles. They went first to a music festival where they opened fire on the crowd. They then took over communities along the border between Israel and Gaza.
At this hour, Hamas militants are still in southern Israel, engaged in gun battles with the military. At the same time, they launched this assault, more than 3,000 rockets were fired into the Jewish state. Earlier today, Hamas militants infiltrating into Israel once again where they were chased by security forces after stealing a civilian car. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YINGST: Israeli security forces just pursued a group of Hamas militants that infiltrated from the Gaza Strip, stole a civilian car and then headed north toward the city of Ashdod. You can see the car in the distance. It has bullet holes in the windshield as security forces are concerned that at least one of these militants has escaped and could be hiding in the area.
Israeli tanks are headed toward the Gaza border right now, a clear indication that Israel is preparing for a ground invasion. We’ve also seen artillery units and special forces headed south.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YINGST: The biggest concern for Israel right now, securing the southern part of their country. We do know their second concern has to do with the hostages taken as prisoners of war by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Dozens of Israeli soldiers and civilians dragged both dead and alive into the Gaza Strip. Hamas says they are being stored in the tunnels underneath Gaza.
All of this as Israel plans their response. You can see the soldiers behind me. They’ve been striking the Gaza Strip overnight and into this morning. And we do know they are now facing rocket and mortar fire from Lebanon, a multi-front conflict erupting in the region — Shannon.
BREAM: Trey Yingst, our deep thanks to you and to your team there keeping us updated around the clock. Thank you, Trey
Turning now to the Biden administration response to the Mideast crisis, FOX News correspondent Lucas Tomlinson is live at the White House with that part of the story.
Hello, Lucas.
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, speaking at the White House, President Biden pledged the full support of the United States and issued the following warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Let me say this as clearly as I can. This is not a moment for any party hostile to Israel to exploit these attacks to seek advantage. The world is watching. And let there be no mistake: the United States stands with the state of Israel.
TOMLINSON (voice-over): Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, the de facto ruler of the country, and Israel’s prime minister both recently told FOX’s Bret Baier their countries were approaching an historic moment, full diplomatic recognition for the first time.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: If you were to characterize it, are you close?
MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, SAUDI ARABIA’S CROWN PRINCE: Every day, we get closer. It seems it’s — for the first time, real one, serious. We’re going to see how it goes.
BAIER: We just got back, I know you heard the words from the Saudi crown prince. What was your response?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Well, I was delighted to hear what he had to say and to borrow a phrase, I think we’re getting closer to peace every day.
BAIER: Now, Senator Tom Cotton says crushing this potential peace detail is exactly where Hamas launched the attacks on Israel, saying in a statement, quote, this war is a transparent attempt by Iran to derail the peace talks between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
The United States should provide Israel the military and diplomatic support it needs to destroy Hamas and the Biden administration should cease all engagement with Iran, a point echoed by one of Israel’s former prime ministers.
NAFTALI BENNETT, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We’re fed up with this hypocrisy. It’s time for Israel to fight back. It’s time for Israel to destroy Hamas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BAIER (on camera): Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Senator Lindsey Graham both called this attack an intelligence failure — Shannon.
BREAM: Lucas, thank you very much.
Joining us now, Jon Finer, deputy national security advisor with the Biden administration.
Jon, thank you for your time this morning.
Let’s start there on the intelligence failure. There are fingers pointing at Israeli intelligence but also at U.S. intelligence that we didn’t pick this up.
What’s your response this morning?
JON FINER, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: My response is we are laser- focused and President Biden, who has a 50-year record of solidarity, support and resolve for Israel, is focused on making sure that they have everything that they need to respond to this appalling attack — everything they need militarily, all the diplomatic support and all of the intelligence support.
There will be a time and place to look back on exactly how this happened, who knew what when, but that moment is not now when we’re still in the throes of the attack as your reporting just showed this is still ongoing.
BREAM: With a number of top Iranian officials coming out and celebrating this, saying they support Hamas with Hezbollah now engaging from the north, what’s the U.S. assessment at this point about the level of Iran’s involvement in this particular onslaught?
FINER: So in terms of Iran’s involvement in the attack that began yesterday, that’s obviously something that we’re looking at very closely and something that we will continue to watch. It is too soon to draw any definitive conclusions, but Iran has been a long-time supporter of Hamas and has complicity in the capabilities that Hamas has built up over time.
We saw statements that came out of Iran yesterday, we obviously completely reject those and I think you heard the president’s words chosen very carefully to warn against any parties hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation including any attempts to open any sort of second front.
BREAM: And a number of administration officials have been clear to come on and talk about the $6 billion in Iranian funds that were recently unfrozen, saying not a penny of that has been spent. It would not have had any way to flow into this particular conflict.
But “The Wall Street Journal” Editorial Board when news of that unfreezing came said this: What stands out in this deal is a $6 billion ransom.
They refer to the secretary of state. They say: Though Mr. Blinken says it will only be available for humanitarian trade like food and medicine, the reality is that the waiver now frees up funds for Iran’s nuclear program, terrorism and proxy wars.
Your response?
FINER: Look, we’ve been quite clear that we just have a fundamentally different view of this situation and that we believe those criticisms are not well-founded and, frankly, inaccurate. Any implication that money that has not yet been spent, not a single dollar of that money has yet been spent, had any role in the attacks that took place in planning them, in equipping the parties that conducted them, just frankly doesn’t make any sense.
And as we’ve been clear, that money can only be spent on humanitarian items, on food, on agricultural products, on medicine, that sort of thing. We’re going to be watching that very closely as well and if Iran spends that money in ways that it’s not supposed to, we will know. So I think the facts are quite clearly on our side of this debate.
BREAM: But if Iran knows it’s getting $6 billion worth of breathing room, is it not fair to assess and have a conversation about whether they then would think the funds they do have in house that are already at their disposal could be spent in nefarious ways?
FINER: We expected this money is only going to be spent over a fairly extended period of time, years, not weeks, not months, and that spending money on stuff, food items, agricultural products, medicines, that benefits the Iranian people but does not benefit the Iranian military is frankly not related to the discussion that we’re having today.
BREAM: Well, the people there certainly need that relief and that help. Let’s hope that it does get to them.
I want to ask you, too, about the — what you heard Lucas talking about, the negotiations and conversations between the Saudis, U.S., Israel that have been ongoing. How much do you think that the incursion, the attacks over the last 24 hours or so are about those conversations?
FINER: So to be honest, I think it’s a bit premature to try to answer that question definitively. We’ve been quite clear that we believe normalizing relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia would be a good thing for the region, would turn the temperature down, deescalate.
We’ve been for greater integration of Israel into the wider Middle East. We think it would be in both countries’ interest to continue to pursue this possibility.
We’ve also been quite clear that this is a challenging set of diplomatic conversations, that we are not on the cusp of some immediate break through when it comes to normalization and it’s something that we’re going to be continuing to work towards.
But right now, in this moment, with attacks still ongoing in Israel, our immediate focus is on getting the Israelis absolutely everything they need. And by the way on working with our other partners in the region, including the Saudis, to make sure that they are being as constructive as possible both in their diplomatic work behind the scenes and in their statements to try to lean on parties not to expand this conflict.
BREAM: Deputy National Security Advisor Jon Finer, we appreciate your time. Thank you so much for dropping in.
FINER: Thank you for having me.
BREAM: Joining us now, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.
Mr. Secretary, I want to start there. You’re very familiar with the tensions of this region.
And to this point about these ongoing conversations, “Politico” said this: Interventions by that Rahim Safavi, which is a top Iranian official, and other senior Iranian policymakers will be seen by Iran’s long running regional rival Saudi Arabia as a threatening signal that Tehran is willing to stir up regional conflict to prevent Riyadh from normalizing ties with Israel as the U.S. wants.
Do you think that’s what this is about?
MIKE POMPEO, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, Shannon, good morning.
This is at its core about historic efforts by Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Make no mistake about it: these were barbaric attack. They’re continuing — women and children. There’s now hostages being held.
You know, I was on this very show a few weeks back talking about the fact that when the United States pays a billion dollars per hostage, there will be more hostage-taking. Look what happened yesterday — more hostages taken by the Iranian regime’s proxy, Hamas, in Gaza.
This is bad set of policies. When I hear Mr. Finer talk about the fact that that decision to give them $6 billion didn’t matter, we can’t forget too, we gave Palestinians $230 million on nearly day one of the Biden administration.
The responsible party here are the leadership, the terrorists in Gaza Strip, Hamas. They are funded by Iran and the United States policy to cozy up to Iran has created enormous risk for Israel which we are seeing play out today.
And you should know, too, the Gulf States all are watching what Iran is doing here. They can see. This was a moment of clarity for the world.
Do not avert your eyes. I hope the world will continue to watch what’s taking place here because this is precisely why we built out a structure, which isolated Iran, caused at least four countries to normal relationships with Israel and why when the Biden administration disrupted that, there’s so much risk for the American people as well.
BREAM: Well, into the broader impact, “National Review” has this headline: The world is about to change and likely for the worse, they say. That this presumably scotches years of diplomacy quietly shepherded by both the Trump and Biden administrations, trying to get Saudi Arabia to officially recognize Israel, Iran’s self interest here is thus transparently obvious. But think further afield of places like China, Russia, Ukraine and America.
What do you make of the potential for broader impact as you just sort of touched on?
POMPEO: Shannon, I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Look, we have to focus on what’s on — what’s going on the ground there today. There is an immediate crisis there. This was a massacre of innocents and civilians, and the Israelis must be provided everything they need to respond to this in a way that deters this from ever happening again.
That was the mistake. You know the opening moments after this attack, the Biden administration’s team on the ground in Israel said, gosh, can’t we all just get along? They issued a statement demanding that the Israelis essentially fold their tent and allow this massacre to continue. That was indecent —
BREAM: Just so we know that — that was retracted. Just so folks know. But yeah, it was —
POMPEO: It was retracted because they because they —
BREAM: — it was a first response.
POMPEO: That’s right. It was their first response. It was their instinct, Shannon. That’s exactly right. This is the Biden administration’s instinct. Appease at every turn. And it’s how you get, precisely what you described. You described the fact we had 13 Americans killed in Afghanistan. We’ve seen coups in Africa. We have a ground war in Europe. We have a Chinese Communist Party that is threatening every one of its land-based neighbors and sea-based neighbors.
When America refuses to do the right thing and lead and use American power in ways that deter adversaries, they — like the old southwest airlines line, they feel free to move about the cabin, Shannon. And that’s bad for the United States of America. We now have a strategic petroleum reserve with just 17 days of oil amongst the lowest in our American history.
We’ve put America on its back foot. And when you do that, the Iranians will run rough shot over us. And I worry greatly that Hezbollah and Lebanon, the Iranians on the ground in Syria today, will seize this moment to do even more harm to the peace that we had built out in the Middle East over our four years in office.
BREAM: Yeah, the exchanges with Hezbollah to the north, very concerning as well. Mr. Secretary, thank you very much. We always appreciate your insights.
POMPEO: Thank you, Shannon. Have a great day, ma’am.
BREAM: You too.
BREAM: All right, we’ll continue to break down this story. Plus, fallout for President Biden after flipping on his campaign promise to not build another foot of wall at our southern border, as the flood of migrants crossing into our country shows zero signs of letting up.
We’re going to bring in the Sunday panel to discuss how the President’s about face could affect his anemic poll numbers going into ’24. They’ll also preview a critical week in Washington as the House tries to pick a new speaker, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: Israel has the right to defend itself and its people, full stop. There’s never justification for terrorist attacks. And my administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: President Biden reaffirming U.S. support for Israel after the deadly widespread attacks by Hamas.
Time now for our Sunday group. USA Today White House Correspondent Francesca Chambers. Ben Domenech, the Editor-at-Large of the Spectator and host of the Ben Domenech podcast. Former 2020 Biden Campaign Surrogate, Kevin Walling. And Mary Katharine Ham, Columnist for OutKick.
All right, we plan to talk about a lot of things until yesterday. This was not one of them, but it is now front and center. Ben, you’ve heard unequivocal unanimity here in Washington about supporting Israel. But there are decisions by this administration and there’s polling that shows people are not confident in how it’s handling foreign policy. It’s here now, front and center.
BEN DOMENECH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I don’t know why any American would be confident in the way that this administration is handling the foreign policy challenges that we face at the moment. I think that, you know, going back connected to the situation in Afghanistan, which this administration absolutely bungled, turned into a debacle and got Americans killed.
The fact that Ukrainians had to engage in the kind of lengthy drawn-out process that it has in order to get F-16s and many of the other equipment that they’re still being denied by this administration is certainly extending that conflict in ways that American people are frustrated with.
And then we see this happen in this way and hear the denial from this administration as if money works in ways that are absolutely magical and that you can’t have $6 billion injected into an Iranian regime that funds terror around the world and not have consequences because of the confidence that they have that they’ll be able to pay for everything that they need going forward.
There’s a direct connection between what this administration is doing and death around the world and chaos that people see all over the world. And for some reason, only the White House remains in denial about its responsibility at that.
BREAM: Well, Kevin, you know that when this landed on September 11th of all days, there was a lot of consternation from a number of quarters, not just the ultra-conservative and Republican voices.
KEVIN WALLING, FORMER 2020 BIDEN CAMPAIGN SURROGATE: Well, Shannon, I think that was so important to hear from Jon Finer, directly with the White House, our own Jennifer Griffin, of course, has debunked that notion that the $6 billion has been used to fund any element of what’s going on that we’re seeing layout right now.
(CROSSTALK)
DOMENECH: Do you understand how — no, no, no, no. Explain to me how money works. Explain to me how you can put $6 billion in front of you as a giant gift and then not have other money moved.
WALLING: What’s it say that the Iranian regime was going to fund to the $6 billion note any kind of medicine, any kind of food for their own people? We know this is a terroristic regime in Iran.
DOMENECH: You have the source, the fact-checked source that you have to deny that, is the president of Iran. I’m just saying —
WALLING: No, no, no, there’s independent verification on this Iranian money that is their own money from oil reserves.
Now, having said that, I think we need to — as the president said yesterday, reestablish and re-focus that element of this ironclad relationship that enjoys both bipartisan support that we’re seeing. I fundamentally reject a lot of what I’m seeing on the left, for example, of my own party that says we need a ceasefire. We need to de-escalate. No calls for that were after 9/11. No calls for that were after Pearl Harbor.
The Israelis, for the first time, have had their own sovereign territory invaded, something that we haven’t seen since 1948. And you’re seeing an administration with that statement from the president yesterday, again, declaring for the entire world that ironclad relationship that we have with Israel, and that’s critically important.
BREAM: This is showing up on the campaign trail too because we immediately heard all the GOP contenders out there saying we are with Israel, we stand with them. But interesting that former Vice President Mike Pence said this, Politico notes, “In a scathing rebuke, Pence faulted, ‘voices of appeasement like Donald Trump, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Ron DeSantis, that I believe have run contrary to the tradition in our party that America is the leader of the free world.'”
Mary Katharine, whether that’s a direct quote on Israel, I mean those candidates and former president have made clear that they 100% support Israel. But interesting that he would try to open some daylight there.
MARY KATHARINE HAM, OUTKICK COLUMNIST: Yeah, I’m not sure about that attack to the right particularly of DeSantis, but to your point, Kevin, I have seen messaging that says Israel can defend itself, and also it should not. We should be very clear about this free people have been invaded and butchered and tortured and there are people who are in Gaza Strip who we don’t know what will happen to them. And Blinken just said a few minutes ago on a show that perhaps some of them are Americans, right?
So we have a really desperate situation here. But Hamas did not act out of desperation. They acted out of opportunity and enthusiasm for taking out the Jewish people and the Jewish state. And that is what is happening here. And so we need to be very clear right about that on both sides.
BREAM: I want to make sure too that we — we loop this in. Chad Pergram are fantastic Capitol Hill Producer and Correspondent says, this is one of the issues that highlights the fact that we don’t have a speaker. Because if you got to move legislation or do something related to Israel, even the briefing of the Gang of Eight, the top Democrat and Republican leaders, when you’re missing a speaker, there is a missing piece to this. And we’ve got a speaker fight this week to see who it’s going to be.
FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, USA TODAY WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And the White House acknowledging last night to reporters that this creates a unique situation if they were to need to go back to Congress for emergency aid because of that. As far as the Biden administration is concerned here, they have had a complicated relationship with Israel ever since Netanyahu came back into power. Recall that over the summer, he did not invite Netanyahu to the White House, even though he had the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog there.
He ended up meeting with Netanyahu at the United Nations instead rather than issuing that White House invitation. That is over domestic policy disagreements, including the judicial reform overhaul. But you again heard Biden saying last night that when it comes to the security relationship, that relationship is ironclad.
BREAM: Yeah, and that — I can’t — well, we know more broadly foreign policy is going to come up in this speaker fight, even though everybody seems to be united on the Israel front. They got to talk about Ukraine. They got to talk about funding. You’ve got Steve Scalise. You’ve got Jim Jordan. How does this shake out, Mary Katharine?
HAM: I mean, it sure would be nice to have a functioning House right now. This is obviously going to be part of the conversation. I would hope, and I feel like I might be foolish to hope, that this would make the decision easier, that it would make people sort of get in line to line up behind whomever ends up being the speaker. I think Steve Scalise is like the sort of natural progression, but Jordan has a lot of support.
And again, the Biden administration says, look, there’s been years of support for Israel and it’s ironclad. We’ll see how ironclad it is two weeks from now when Israel is responding. There’s also been years long deference to Iran in an attempt to negotiate with them on this nuke deal. At every turn, and you don’t even have to go to the six billion, you can go straight to the hundreds of millions poured straight into Gaza, to the State Department itself, when trying to get this money there, was like, we would advise the administration that this is going to probably encourage more terrorism.
BREAM: They have concerns within the administration —
HAM: Right. These are leaked documents that are — is on paper. So we don’t even have to go to that money to know that we have encouraged this. And so those two things are at odds.
BREAM: Well we also have, not only, you know, it is a very real everyday concern for the people of Israel, what’s going on in their borders. But our borders here now are getting a lot of attention because of a pivot. This president said, I’m not going to build another foot of the border wall. You’ve got DHS Secretary Mayorkas coming out saying, we need to start building a wall.
The White House has said — the President has said, he’s had no choice in the fact that the wall reconstruction is going to — construction is going to happen. This is the monies already appropriated, but Peter Doocy asked back and forth with Karine Jean-Pierre, Press Secretary of the White House, you guys do oppose some things that you don’t like. Why are you not fighting harder against this, which you say leaves you no choice?
Here’s that exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You guys do this all the time. The student loans, the student loan forgiveness program, you went to court to fight for that. If this is such a problem, building 20 miles of wall, why not just go to court?
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We went to Congress. The Congress appropriates the funding. Congress —
DOOCY: Why not fight them more?
JEAN-PIERRE: Congress appropriates the funding. We asked them to not use that funding for that particular purpose. They denied it. And now we’re complying with the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: But Kevin, there are a number of things, including a number of border policies that they have taken to court. So unfair to say, well, we have no choice, the wall’s got to happen. Or is this more about knowing that, you know, at recent polls shows, President Trump has a 24-point advantage on this President when it comes to how he’s handling the border?
WALLING: Well, listen, I mean we see the optics every day of folks streaming across the border. I think there’s — we have reached, and I’ve said this for a long time as a Democrat on Fox News, a crisis point with our southern border. Sometimes border walls work, oftentimes they don’t. The border has been cut into over thousands of times in terms of those steel girders.
But I think it’s a realization, and you saw just last week the President dispatched his Secretary of State, Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General together to Mexico to continue to put pressure on that regime to take more action.
We achieved a relationship with Venezuela, something that we haven’t seen in decades where we can repatriate Venezuelans coming across the border with expediency. So I think it’s a realization that we have to do more certainly on that border because of the political issue as well that you point out.
BREAM: We got to leave it there. We’re going to have to go to pay-per-view during the commercial, so stick around. Panel, thank you very much. We’ll see you next Sunday.
Up next, the race for the White House, I went to Tallahassee to sit down with Governor Ron DeSantis to talk about the state of his campaign and his record in Florida.
It’s a Fox News Sunday exclusive, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a time where the United States needs leadership.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We should send a clear message to our allies in Israel. We are with you. We stand with you.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We’ve got to stand by Israel and their right to defend themselves. And a forceful response with overwhelming force is the only way to ensure that this never happens again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Republican and presidential hopefuls declaring support for Israel as Prime Minister Netanyahu says his country is at war, the cabinet there now formally designating that.
Now, before the deadly surprise attack, I sat down with Governor Ron DeSantis Friday at the Governor’s Mansion in Florida for his first Network Sunday show appearance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: Governor, thank you for having us here at the mansion, which is a beautiful place. It’s your home. It’s an office. It’s kind of a dual purpose for your young family.
DESANTIS: And you have roots in Tallahassee, so welcome.
BREAM: I do. Thank you. It’s good to be home.
Let’s start. We’ll talk about Florida, but let’s start first, where you’ve served before in Washington, where the House is in a bit of disarray. You were a House member who was one of the co-founders of the Freedom Caucus. Could you have foreseen a scenario where we are now, where conservatives in the House have ousted a Republican speaker and there are serious divides within the party, how would you heal them?
DESANTIS: Well, look, at the end of the day, you got to be focused on results. And what I’ve seen up there in Washington for both parties is a lot of theater. There’s a lot of things that are done that’s performative, but it’s not ultimately leading to anything.
And the contrast between what’s going on there and say with Florida is, I’m not running a soap opera down here. I’m not an entertainer. My job is to be the leader, to be able to lay out a vision, execute that vision, and deliver results. And so as president, I’ll provide the leadership. We know that we’re going to need to go to tackle the budget, tackle the border wall and the southern border, all these key issues. But we’re going to be judged by what we deliver for the American people.
You know, the people that are struggling to buy groceries, the people that can’t afford a mortgage or can’t afford a new car, they don’t really care who the speaker of the House is. They just want to see the job get done. And we got to not focus so much on what’s happening inside D.C. and focus on what’s happening throughout the rest of the country.
BREAM: We talked a lot about your record here in Florida, but the fact is you had a veto-proof Republican supermajority for getting things done. Washington is much different. There are fractions within the party. And obviously, but with the parties at each other’s heads across the aisle. How would you govern there? What’s your pitch to voters who say, yes, getting it done here is one thing, but that’s a very divided situation.
DESANTIS: Well, first of all, I did not have suit veto-proof in my first four years. We earned veto-proof majorities by winning the biggest reelection victory that a Republican governor has ever had in the history of the state of Florida. We delivered results, the people responded.
And we took Florida from being a very competitive state politically, a one- point state to now making it one of the — the strongest Republican states and of course, we’re leading on the policy. So we earned the opportunity to do that. The first four years, we didn’t necessarily have that, so how is it about — it’s not about me. It’s not about personalities of the legislative leadership. It’s a bottom-up approach, your vision resonates with the people and then the people tell the representatives get in line.
President Reagan did not have a Republican house at all when he came in. And what did he do? He went over the heads of the people of the legislators, spoke directly to the people. And people said, you know what, this country is going in the wrong direction, work with the president, and let’s turn things around.
The majority of the public knows this country is in a state of decline. And so we need to reverse the decline. We need to usher in an American revival. What we did in Florida is a model that can work for the country.
BREAM: Some of the things that you’ve done in Florida are tied up in legal fights, not surprisingly. Let’s talk about the fact that the Supreme Court has taken up the social media law that you have here in Florida, a similar one as well. They’ll consider out of Texas essentially the premises that social media companies would be unable to ban restrict or remove most content. They’d have to explain what their censorship or their policy plans are.
Opponents argue that the First Amendment means not only that people have the freedom to say what they want. But that you can’t force people to host or support an idea that they don’t. One of the opponents of the Texas law said it would force Americans everywhere to endure racial epithets, aggressive homophobia, pornographic material, beheadings, or other gruesome content just as they’re scrolling around online. So as the First Amendment protects free speech, it also prohibits the government from telling entities what they have to do and what they have to say or endorse.
DESANTIS: I’d say two different things. One, I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I mean, for example, they have a right as private companies to decide what rules they want to do. They got to apply those rules evenly. And what the social media companies had been doing is they’ve been disfavoring conservative voices. So they tell you it’s an open platform. They get liability protection from the federal government because they claim to be open platforms, but yet they don’t operate that way. So our bill was basically allowing people that had been disfavored to bring a consumer fraud action against them because they were given a representation of this. First thing.
Second thing, we have to grapple with the fact that these big tech companies colluded with the federal government to stifle dissent on COVID. If you put up an article in March of 2020 saying COVID came from the Wuhan lab, they would take it down and censor it.
If you criticize lockdowns, they would take it down and censor it. They censored the Hunter Biden laptop story at the behest of the federal government. The federal government cannot subcontract out violations of the First Amendment to private companies. You can’t do indirectly what the Constitution forbids you to do directly. So I think those two factors make it different.
If you want to start a private company and you want to be a publisher, you have the right to publish what you want or not want. But these are companies that are getting benefits from the government to protect them from liability and they’re turning around and working with the government.
So I think the Supreme Court needs to resolve this. We knew this was going to go to the Supreme Court. I said it when I signed the bill, because this is a case of first impression. Texas’s law was upheld in the Fifth Circuit. Ours was not in the 11th. The Supreme Court will resolve it.
But what we have to recognize is we have a public square now that’s largely digital. And so I want robust First Amendment speech. I want people to be able to express themselves and debate issues. And when you have one of the most consequential things that’s ever happened to this country, COVID lockdowns, and these companies were censoring a discussion about whether that was the right thing to go, that is not good for a republic.
BREAM: Do you worry that some of the culture fights get so much attention that they overshadow other things that you want to talk about?
DESANTIS: I don’t think so because I think if people fairly look at what I’ve done as governor and then what I talk about on the campaign trail, the number one thing I talk about is people are paying too much for everything. People are falling behind. The American dream has slipped away.
In Florida, we’re one of the few states where we’ve had a big increase in personal income. We have no income tax, of course. We have a big budget surplus. Since I’ve been governor, we’ve paid down almost 25% of our state’s total debt while cutting taxes and being the number one state for new business formations. And so we’ve been — we have a record second to none on all those issues.
I do think, though, some of these cultural issues affect things far beyond whatever. I mean, for example, we had the fight about the gender ideology in the elementary schools. We can as a country succeed if kindergartners are being taught that their gender is a choice or that they can change. They were born in the wrong body. That’s just wrong. And so, yes, I’m the father of a six, five and a three-year-old. My wife and I are sensitive about what’s going on in the schools. But I also think this society needs to be rooted in truth. And so many of these fights are based on things that are just not true and we have a responsibility to fight back the truth, and set you free.
BREAM: Well, I was at a gathering of women the other night, very informal off the record. But one of the women said, I think it’s terrible in Florida that they’re banning books. She has a child who is an LGBTQ community and said, I don’t want my child to go somewhere like that. I think that they’re afraid and the message that they’ve gotten is that teachers will be punished for talking about non-traditional families and — and families like hers.
DESANTIS: Well, first of all, there’s not a single book that’s been banned in the State of Florida, that is a media hoax, to take a book out of a fourth-grade classroom that’s pornographic because it’s not appropriate for kids of that age. It’s not banning the book. You’re free to do that as an adult if that’s what you want to do.
BREAM: But ban from certain classrooms and age groups.
DESANTIS: Well, but you have to make decisions about what’s appropriate for curriculum. We would have never said, even 10, 15 years ago that it was appropriate to have x-rated materials. Some of these books are x-rated. In fact, I did a press conference to expose this and we said it was exposing the book ban hoax. I played images on a screen of the books that the parents objected to. The local news cut their feed. They said it was too graphic to air on TV.
Well, if it’s too graphic for the six o’clock news, how is it OK for a sixth grader? It’s not. And then the other thing is about what teachers can say or not, look, a teacher should not be instructing a second grader that their gender is a choice. There are not a lot of parents in this country that want to send their kid to second grade and have that.
They need to be focusing on math and they focus on reading, they be focused on science. So I think what we’re doing is really vindicating what education should be, it should not be a hobby horse for the school systems to impose an agenda on the kids. It should be about preparing them for life.
BREAM: I want to talk to you about, a piece in the Washington Post did a deep dive on you and your wife, the first family, and they said this, he wields fear like a currency in Tallahassee, the city is small.
I grew up here, I went to law school not far from here. It is a small town and that people know each other’s business and they do talk. Do you think people are afraid of you? Do you want them to be afraid of you, as the governor?
DESANTIS: Well, I mean, I think a lot of that’s just rhetorical flourish, but I think we’ve been very successful because when I say I’m going to do something, people know I’m going to do it. I don’t bluff. I don’t mess around. I follow through and I find a way to get things done. And so I think people just respect that.
I think they also know that I’ve had the people on my side on all these big fights. You know, we probably got in more fights in Florida where the left in the media were on one side and people thought, oh, you’re taking on water, they’re attacking you. But you know what? The silent majority was on my side. And so I think they’ve seen that play out. And I think they’d rather be on my side on these fights than be on the other side.
BREAM: But are legislators and people here afraid to oppose your ideas or to speak up for fear of what they — you know, this piece suggests that you and your allies would do to their political careers?
DESANTIS: I think that’s a little bit too much. But I think the issue is, is if you go to their districts and you talk to their voters, their voters are going to tell them, I want you to support the governor. You better be back in the governor on these things. So it’s really a bottom up. It’s really no different than when Reagan was in, and he inspired grassroots to pressure legislators. They are voters here, trust me to do the right thing. And if I set out a course, they want to see the legislature follow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: Up next, more from my exclusive sit-down interview with Governor Ron DeSantis, including a discussion about a topic where he’s taking a lot of heat, Ukraine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: GOP candidates, including Governor DeSantis, are campaigning across Iowa again this week. Today marks 99 days until the first in the nation Iowa caucuses. And DeSantis is vowing to visit all of the state’s 99 counties, hoping to score an early upset over frontrunner former President Trump. The next Republican presidential primary debate is one month from today in Miami.
More now of my exclusive sit-down in Florida with the governor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: President Trump leading in the national polls, average of about 45 percent. There is a lot of room for improvement for all the campaigns other than his in trying to catch up.
Hillary Clinton has a new interview out in which she describes Trump followers as a cult that needs to be formally deprogrammed. Your reaction?
DESANTIS: That is deplorable. I mean she is part of the reason why this country is so divided. I mean to attack people that support a candidate just because you couldn’t get the job done and you’re still bitter about that. But we need to stop casting aspersions on people that disagree with us.
Look, people that support the former president are patriotic Americans. I think he’s got, you know, a good following. I think that you’re going to see a lot of movement in the next few months, particularly in places like Iowa. We look forward to doing that. But she’s doing is part of the reasons this country is so polarized, and we need to stop that.
As president, you know, I’m going to try to bring people together. I’m not pollyannaish about this. I know the far left has a lot of bad things. We’re going to do like we did in Florida, we’re going to beat the far left.
But I really do believe that there’s a strong working majority in this country to restore sanity and normalcy, get the people’s business done, but not have politics always get us at each other’s throats.
BREAM: You’ve tried to make the case to Trump followers in trying to win over their primary votes, that he’s not lived up to his promises on things like the wall. You warn them he may not be there with them on pro-life issues and some others. So, do you think his supporters, who haven’t come over to you yet, are unreasonable, unable to think for themselves?
DESANTIS: No, I think it’s still early. You know, you — we do this all the time. But like the average person, they get engaged in this as it gets a lot closer to the caucuses and to the primaries. So, I think you’ll see that.
But, you know, for example, on the right to life he said that pro-life protections, like in Iowa and Florida, he said it’s a terrible thing. And so I think a lot of people were shocked when he said that.
Then he was saying in Iowa the other day about building the wall and having Mexico pay for it. Probably the most political promise this century, certainly one of in American history, and he said, well, there was never a mechanism for me to have Mexico pay for the wall. He acted like it was never possible to begin with. That was a core promise.
The thing is, you actually could have had Mexico pay it. Not just tell them to pay. OF course not. You impose fees on the remittances that people who are working in America are sending back to Mexico and other countries. It would generate billions of dollars. You’d be able to build the wall.
So, what I’ve told people is, I’m the only guy running that I’ve made good on a hundred percent of my promises. I will do the same as president. And I will even make good on Donald Trump’s promises from 2016 that he wasn’t able to do.
BREAM: You have a lot of convincing to do. The polls haven’t been moving in the right direction in some of these early states. South Carolina and New Hampshire, you’re now third in a lot of those polls to Nikki Haley trailing her by about nine points in both of those states. “The Messenger” says this, “DeSantis collapses in New Hampshire polls as backers beg, quote, get your bleep up here.” They’re quoting somebody specifically. Another GOP strategist is reacting to you moving a big chunk of staff here out of Tallahassee to Iowa. Says this, “I think the DeSantis campaign is flashing red. After a really tough summer, the campaign is running on fumes, all going all in on Iowa, when nothing else has worked, does not build confidence.”
Is Iowa –
DESANTIS: Well, that’s not — that’s not true though.
BREAM: Is that a must-win for you though?
DESANTIS: Well, that is – what they’re saying is just not true. We’re going to win Iowa. We think that that’s very important. We are going to be in New Hampshire a lot more. I think we’ve got plans to do that. And you’ll see, all that stuff is very volatile in those early states. We’re going to have four weeks in South Carolina after New Hampshire between that.
So, we’re going to get the job done. But it does start with Iowa. That’s – that’s where we’re going to – going to make the – make the mark. But we’re going to be in — all in on all those states. And, you know, all those guys, all the chatter that they do, they’ve been wrong for years. People were chattering about my re-election as governor, saying we weren’t running a good campaign, that we were sputtering. And I won the biggest victory that we’ve ever seen in the state of Florida for a Republican.
BREAM: Were you ever down by 40 points?
DESANTIS: Huh?
BREAM: Were you ever down by 40 points?
DESANTIS: There were actually polls that had me – that had me losing the general election by a few points. Now, I – you know, that’s a pretty big miss to be able to do. There were some that had me up just two or three points. So, you know, we – we have – we know what the path is. We’re going to execute the plan and we’re going to get it done.
BREAM: Let’s talk some policy. Ukraine talked about this in the last debate. You said, when you were pressed on your position that the U.S. is not going to continue to have a blank check. “Wall Street Journal” editorial board says this, “the governor’s blank check line is a red herring, nobody’s offering one, but if the U.S. abandons Kyiv, Russia wins. Period. Pitting a defense of the U.S. border against aid for Ukraine is a false choice since the U.S. can do both if it has the will.”
So, how would you resolve Ukraine?
DESANTIS: Well –
BREAM: Are – wait, let me ask you, are you with Vivek Ramaswamy who says Putin’s going to get to keep some of what he took? If not, what is your solution?
DESANTIS: Well, I — people say would you give. I wouldn’t give Putin anything. I mean we want to keep Putin in the box. But here’s the thing, they’ve paid for salaries and pensions for Ukrainian bureaucrats. They’re paying for agriculture, business stuff. That is a blank check because that’s not what the American people signed up for, first thing.
Second thing, they say, you can’t hit the border against foreign borders. Your first responsibility is to defend this country. And the D.C. elites do not care about our southern border. They don’t care about all the deaths that have happened. And they’re just letting this happen. So, that does matter. You’ve got to be able to take care of your business here first.
Third thing is, is this, Joe Biden’s missing in action. Where’s the leadership? Where’s the clear statement of the mission? Because people are saying, this could go on for many, many years. He says as long as it takes. That is a blank check that’s going to go.
I served in Iraq back in 2007, 2008. And one of the things I took from that experience is, we do good when we have a very concrete mission that we’re trying to achieve. And when you do that, you know what you’re up against, you know what resources may be needed and you can get it done. Here, they haven’t defined the mission in a concrete way. It’s basically an open-ended commitment. And, yes, that’s not leadership.
Also, this. Biden is funding both sides of this conflict with his Green New Deal policy. If you want to put the clamp on Putin in Russia, open up America’s domestic energy production. We have the best reserves in the world. That would be bad for Russia, bad for Iran, bad for China. He also gave Iran $6 billion and relieved sanctions on them. Iran is funding Russia and funding this conflict. So, I have the ability to come in, I think we need to end this. I don’t think it’s in our interest.
BREAM: But how do you end it? Does – does Putin keep any of the territory he’s taken?
DESANTIS: You – you – you have to – you have to use the leverage that we have available to us, particularly against Russia, China, and Iran. You have to also have the Europeans step up and do more on the military front.
BREAM: But does Ukraine get everything back?
DESANTIS: Well, here’s the thing about that. You know, Putin invaded in 2022. I think the president should articulate what’s the end point that he’s trying to achieve. Is he trying to get them back to February of 2022, or is he trying to get them back to 2013? Those are different missions and those are going to –
BREAM: what would President DeSantis do?
DESANTIS: We’re going to do what’s in the best interest of the United States. Ultimately, you don’t subcontract out foreign policy to a foreign leader, like Zelenskyy. You’ve got to do what’s in our national interest. But we’re also going to have this as part of an overall strategic shift where we’re focusing on China as our premier threat.
The Indo-Pacific – you know, sometimes people will say that the way to defeat China is to give more for Ukraine, but we don’t even have enough firepower in the Indo-Pacific right now. We need more hard power in the Pacific to be able to deny China’s ambitions. And we need to do things with the economy and culture. There’s a whole host. It’s got to be a whole of society approach if we want to check China.
BREAM: Well, and you’ve talked about decoupling with them, but the fact is, we are very tied to them on a number of industries, including pharmaceutical. The Atlantic Council has this estimate. “Since 2020, U.S. imports of Chinese pharmaceuticals have grown by 485 percent. So, easier to talk about decoupling than actually make it happen. Is it fair to suggest to voters that that’s actually plausible.
DESANTIS: I’ve never said you can just snap your finger and we will decouple everything immediately. You’ve got to be strategic. You’ve got to be methodical. You’ve got to have a plan.
I mean, for example, it’s one thing to say we don’t want to get something from China, but are we going to make it so that you can actually do that and it’s economical in the United States? That may require us to do tax incentives and other things to be able to do it. So, it’s part of a larger I think strategic shift that’s consistent with our national security. I actually think it could have some economic benefits here at home. But it’s not something that will happen overnight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: Up next, Florida’s first lady joins our discussion. Some things you may be surprised about, about their life at home and on the road with their young family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: A look there at the governor’s mansion in Tallahassee where we spent some time with the DeSantis family this week.
They are no strangers to the campaign trail. This time they’ve got three kids in toe ages six, five and three. I asked them about juggling all that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY DESANTIS, FIRST LADY OF FLORIDA: Well, and, you know, this time goes by so fast, right? It’s like, what do they say, the years are short, the days are long, and it just – it goes by in the blink of an eye. And so even before this interview today I was out doing a field trip with our six-year- old and came in here and ran and got ready and tried to come because – you know, and that’s why you see them on the campaign trail with us because we don’t want to miss these opportunities.
R. DESANTIS: They’re really into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles now.
C. DESANTIS: Ninja Turtles.
BREAM: Oh, wow.
C. DESANTIS: In the ’80s.
R. DESANTIS: And I remember that when I was a kid.
BREAM: I do too.
R. DESANTIS: So they found that. And like – so my — my son has a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle costume that he was planning on wearing for Halloween. But then he knows how to get on her phone. He searches Amazon for football stuff. He found a Jacksonville Jaguars Halloween costume.
BREAM: OK.
R. DESANTIS: It hasn’t arrived yet. So, if it — if it arrives, I think he’s going to go Jags over Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: I love that he’s giving himself options.
All right, that’s it for today. Thank you for joining us. I’m Shannon Bream. Have a safe week out there. We’ll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
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