This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on March 24, 2024. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I’m Shannon Bream.
Brand new numbers show a record-breaking February at the southern border, just days after a shocking video made headlines showing hundreds of migrants breaching through razor wire and taking on the Texas National Guard.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (voice-over): Texas clashes with the Biden White House after a week of back and forth court rulings on a controversial state immigration law.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: Texas has a right to defend ourselves and we will use that authority.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: You have a governor in Texas who is continuing to make this — make this sadly a dangerous situation, a chaotic situation.
BREAM: As Congress votes on millions more in funding for the beleaguered Border Patrol and haggles over more aid for Israel.
Overseas, the Biden administration delivers a warning to Prime Minister Netanyahu.
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: President Biden’s been very clear that a major ground operation in Rafah would be a mistake.
BREAM: We’ll get reaction to all of it with Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton and Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine.
And Monday is deadline day for President Trump to pay a nearly half billion dollar fine to New York state or risk losing some high-profile pieces of his famous real estate empire.
We’ll ask our Sunday panel whether a potential windfall from a new media merger could impact Trump’s costly legal battle.
All, right now, on “FOX News Sunday”.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): Hello from FOX News in Washington and to those who are celebrating a happy and blessed Palm Sunday.
Making headlines today, two days after the deadly Moscow terror attack that killed more than people, Russia launched a large scale missile attack on Western Ukraine, striking critical infrastructure in Lviv. Poland says one of the missiles briefly flew over its airspace.
Vladimir Putin is trying to link Ukraine to the concert massacre despite ISIS-K claiming responsibility. Ukraine denies any involvement in the attack. The U.S. also says ISIS is to blame and Ukraine was not involved.
Back here at home, Customs and Border Patrol says there were nearly 190,000 migrant encounters at the border last month, setting an all-time high record number for the month of February and CBP says at least people on the FBI terror watch list have been arrested by Border Patrol so far this year.
We’ll get reaction to both stories in a moment with Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton. Plus, Trey Yingst will update us on the latest out of Russia in the Middle East.
But, first, we start with FOX News correspondent Nate Foy live from Eagle Pass, Texas.
Hello, Nate.
NATE FOY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Shannon. Good morning.
In addition to record-breaking CBP numbers being released, there’s frustration on the border about a few things, the back and forth legal battle over Senate Bill 4 with the Biden administration, the new budget deal and two consecutive days this week where migrants clashed with Texas authorities in El Paso.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOY (voice-over): After trampling over Texas National Guard soldiers in El Paso, many of these migrants will be released into the United States, processed under Title 8.
JEAN-PIERRE: Everyone was apprehended by the border patrol agents that is important to know they were apprehended.
REPORTER: Were they deported?
JEAN-PIERRE: What — they were apprehended. I can’t speak to individual cases.
FOY: Now, more migrants try to topple another fence with Texas resources between them and border patrol. According to Customs and Border Protection, quote, individuals and families without illegal basis to remain in the United States will be removed. But that process takes years when done correctly, which it often isn’t.
The nonpartisan group TRAQ finds 200,000 deportation cases thrown out under President Joe Biden because of DHS paperwork issues.
The new budget boosts CBP spending by $3.2 billion.
Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales says the money goes to the wrong places.
REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): When you give more money to more processing centers without having immigration judges there to expedite cases and then ultimately remove people immediately that do not qualify for asylum, all you’re doing is creating this huge magnet that that increases the amount of people that are coming over illegally.
FOY: DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas wants more money, posting on X, quote: What Congress passed falls short in key areas and does not address chronic underfunding of DHS.
Texas and the Biden administration now await a key ruling on Senate Bill 4 which would allow Texas to arrest and deport migrants who cross the border illegally.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOY (on camera): Shannon, that ruling could come at any moment. It will determine if Texas can enforce S.B.4 over the next days then there will be another hearing about whether or not the law is unconstitutional coming up on April 3rd.
We’ll send it back to you.
BREAM: All right. Nate Foy, reporting from the southern border — Nate, thank you very much.
We turn now to FOX News foreign correspondent Trey Yingst live from Tel Aviv.
Hello, Trey.
TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, good morning.
Horrific scenes out of Russia this weekend as ISIS-K launched a large scale attack against civilians. I do need to warn our viewers some of the following images are graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YINGST (voice-over): The crack of gunfire pierces the air of a Moscow concert hall as a group of ISIS-K gunmen systematically works their way through the venue, killing more than 130 people in their path.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The main thing now is to prevent those who are behind this bloodbath from committing a new crime.
YINGST: Russia’s President Vladimir Putin vowing to identify and punish those who took part in the massacre. Already four suspects who allegedly had direct involvement have been detained.
JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: The images are just horrible and just hard to watch and our thoughts obviously are going to be with the victims of this terrible, terrible shooting attack.
YINGST: the Biden administration expressed sympathy for the victims three weeks after the U.S. State Department warned American citizens in Russia to avoid large gatherings.
Secretary of State Anthony Blinken was likely briefed on the attacks after he wrapped up another tour of the Middle East hoping to iron out the details of a possible ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas. A hundred seventy days into the war, fighting rages on inside the Gaza Strip and questions loom about the potential of an Israeli offensive into Gaza’s southernmost city.
An operation into Rafah is something the Biden administration is urging Israeli officials to avoid amid ongoing negotiations to pause the conflict.
BLINKEN: So there’s still a lot of work to be done, hard work to be done, but we’re determined to try to get it done.
YINGST: With no end in sight, aid continues to flow into the enclave with more trucks making it to northern Gaza over the weekend. The United Nations warns this part of the strip is on the verge of famine and must continue to receive more international support.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YINGST (on camera): With a focus on Israel’s southern front, there are still real concerns about a broader conflict in the north. The Lebanese militant group Hezbollah launched new attacks against Israel over the weekend — Shannon.
BREAM: Trey Yingst in Tel Aviv — Trey, thank you very much.
Joining us now, Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton.
Senator, welcome back to “FOX News Sunday”.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR), SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Thank you, Shannon. It’s good to be on with you.
BREAM: We have a lot to unpack there based on just the top of the show here.
But let me start with Russia. “The New York Times” reminds us who ISIS-K is saying: The group got a dramatic second wind soon after the Taliban toppled the Afghan government in ’21, and reminds us during the U.S. military withdrawal from the company, that’s the group that carried out the suicide bombing at the international airport in Kabul that killed 13 U.S. troops and as many as 170 civilians. They’ve continued attacks around the globe.
You’ve served in uniform in Afghanistan. How worried are you about conditions there on the ground that ISIS-K has been able to rebound to this strength?
COTTON: Well, I’m quite worried, Shannon, as you saw what ISIS from Afghanistan was able to do in Moscow a couple days ago, this is the unfortunate echo of President Biden’s chaotic and disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan the same group that killed 13 Americans.
Just a few days ago, at the Armed Services Committee, I asked our commanding general in the Middle East about ISIS’s capacity to project attacks from Afghanistan. He said that in as little as six months and it turned out to be closer to six days, that ISIS from Afghanistan with little or no warning could attack Western interests across Asia and Europe, and that’s exactly what we’ve seen happen.
It’s deeply regrettable that innocent civilians, women and children were killed in Moscow but the next attacks could be against an American embassy in Asia or in Europe, or against say students traveling to Europe on a school trip for spring break.
Again this is a very dangerous echo of President Biden’s failed withdrawal from Afghanistan.
BREAM: So, U.S. intelligence had issued warnings publicly and privately about this group and a potential attack in Russia.
You sit on Senate Intelligence. How worried are you about an attack like that on our soil?
COTTON: Well, I am very worried about it, and again you don’t even have to sit on the Intelligence Committee and have classified intelligence. You can just listen to what the commanding general of our force in the Middle East said that in as little as six months, you could have an attack like this and again it turned out to be six days.
He said it might be a little bit longer to project that kind of attack against the American homeland or the Western hemisphere. But again, we have millions of Americans who live or travel abroad throughout Europe and Asia, embassies, businesses there.
So I’m deeply worried that ISIS from Afghanistan will end up targeting Americans sooner rather than later.
What happened in Moscow obviously is very, very sad for the people there, but we have a duty to protect the American people wherever they are here in America or around the world. And right now, I worry that they’re at grave risk.
BREAM: Well, as a reminder, this is the video that we saw just days ago of what’s happening at our U.S. southern border and the fact is we’ve got new numbers from CBP, they came in late in the week. They talk about a record high for a February number, and also that up to 70 people on an FBI terror watch list have been arrested this year alone.
We don’t know if any of those people got deported. None of our reporters can determine that a single one was. But the administration is saying that you guys are the reason this is happening.
DHS Secretary Mayorkas said Saturday on X: Congress has to do more to support our frontline workforce, including passing the bipartisan border security bill. He says it would fix the asylum system, give our department needed tools to better enforce the laws of the border, fight cartels and stop fentanyl from entering the country.
He’s pointing the finger at you.
COTTON: Well, Shannon, the only — the only person responsible for the chaos at our border is Joe Biden. In 2020, he said that he would reverse all of President Trump’s highly effective policies. That sent a signal to everyone around the world that if you got to our border you could get in. That’s exactly what he did on day one.
And we had more illegal crossings in 2021 than we had had in any previous year and again in ’22, and again in ’23. That has nothing to do with the bill that Congress may or may not pass in the spring of 2024.
These — this chaos at our border, 10 million illegal migrants crossing our — into our country’s border over the last three-plus years is solely the responsibility of Joe Biden.
BREAM: Well, you know, Democrats in the Senate are blaming you guys, too, not surprisingly. There’s some tensions late Friday early into Saturday as you have passed this new round of appropriations bills. A little back-and- forth with you and Senator Jon Tester, Democrat out of Montana.
“New York Post” has this, they quote him saying: Republicans are the ones that killed the best immigration bill we’ve ever had on the floor of the Senate. Senator Tom Cotton, however, told reporters Tester was privately telling members he didn’t want to vote on amendments, many of those had to do with the border. That’s BS, he said. We’re censoring that for morning TV.
A Tester spokesman also called that accusation false.
So did you hear him say that? Did another senator tell him you said that? Who’s telling the truth?
COTTON: He — he was saying that to senators privately, whatever he was saying publicly.
But again, it’s not just Jon Tester. It’s people like Sherrod Brown and Bob Casey as well, very vulnerable Democratic incumbents who are scared to death to vote on anything related to our border because they don’t want to offend the open borders ideologues in their own party but they realize that it’s toxic, or voting against, say, making sure men can’t play in women’s sports, or against sanctions relief for Iran.
That’s why we were voting at 2:00 a.m. in the morning on Saturday morning is because Chuck Schumer and the Senate Democrats are bending themselves into pretzels trying to avoid accountability for Joe Biden’s failed policies. But it’s coming and it’s going to come in November in the form of big Senate victories when we take back the Senate majority and when Donald Trump is reelected.
So they can avoid the votes as much as they want, but in the end, they’re going to be accountable for Joe Biden and Senate Democrats’ failed policies that has caused this chaos in the border, cause the disrespect and danger in the world, cause the prices for everything from gas and groceries and rent to go sky high.
There are a lot of Republicans who didn’t vote for that spending bill, that you did vote for as it got across the finish line. One of them over in the House, Andrew Clyde is a congressman who said Republicans can’t righteously denounce Democrats’ disastrous policies and then turn around and fund them.
Your friend and colleague Senator James Lankford on the Senate side said this: The bill egregiously funds hospitals that perform late term abortions. He says federal taxpayer dollars shouldn’t go to those facilities.
So why were you a yes vote?
COTTON: Well, Shannon, this is far from a perfect bill. I wish it had been written very differently. I’d wish it had been written in a different way, but about 70 percent of the money in the bill goes to our military. It funds very needful priorities like pay raises for our troops or investments in our industrial base to build up the weapons and the ammunitions we might need in a conflict with, say, China over Taiwan.
But then again, the only person to blame for the way this bill turned out and the way we voted on it is Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer again for a year and a half has refused to bring bills to the floor under an open amendment process because he wants to protect Democrats like Jon Tester or Sherrod Brown who are out of step with their majorities in the state.
The solution to this problem is to elect a Republican majority in November and Donald Trump. We will then be able to write these bills in a way that reflect the priorities of the American people.
BREAM: I want to get to a couple of other things you’re going to have to get through in the Senate.
First of all, funding for Israel aid. There’s a giant package the White House wants it all passed together. There’s talk in the House they may split it into separate different pieces.
But we know that Secretary Antony Blinken is in the Middle East. He’s coming back now but he’s had this conversation with Bibi Netanyahu saying we don’t want you to go on to Rafah and there are all kinds of other problems we have.
Here’s the secretary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It risks killing more civilians. It risks wreaking greater havoc with the division of humanitarian assistance. It risks further isolating Israel around the world and jeopardizing its long-term security and standing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: So what about those short and long-term impacts potentially what Israel is doing now, hindering the possibility of getting to peace long- term, and shouldn’t allies and friends be able to have these difficult conversations?
COTTON: Shannon, we’re fewer than six months past the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust. We should back Israel to the hilt in their existential war against Hamas. That includes rooting out the Hamas terrorists and leaders who are now hiding in Rafah.
And Joe Biden and Tony Blinken and Chuck Schumer, rather than blaming Benjamin Netanyahu and putting pressure on him, should be helping the Israeli government put pressure on Hamas, not only to win this war, but also help bring back those hostages, some of whom are American hostages. It’s very disappointing to see Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer apparently more concerned about placating the growing anti-Semitic faction in their party than helping an ally like Israel win this war.
BREAM: More than a million civilians are sheltered there as well. Many of them have left other parts of Gaza to get there.
COTTON: If you want to protect those civilians, a simple way would be for Hamas to release those hostages and to unconditionally surrender.
BREAM: OK, very quickly, because we got to go, but TikTok, there’s finally a bill sitting in the Senate. It seems like it’s stalled out at this point.
COTTON: Well, I agree on this rare occasion with Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer has said publicly that we should force TikTok to be sold to an American business. That’s what this bill would do. It wouldn’t ban TikTok. It would force TikTok’s Chinese communist-influenced parent company to divest it. We’ve done that repeatedly with Chinese companies and other companies through the processes that we use to protect the American people from foreign adversary-owned companies. That’s what TikTok is.
BREAM: Does it get to a vote?
COTTON: It should get to a vote. And Chuck Schumer, again, has said he wants a bill just like this to happen. So I think we should bring it up as soon as we’re back from this Easter break.
BREAM: All right, Tom Cotton and Chuck Schumer in agreement.
COTTON: At least once.
BREAM: We’ll end it there.
COTTON: At least once.
BREAM: Senator, thank you.
COTTON: Thank you.
BREAM: All right, up next, the White House points the finger at Republicans over the chaotic scenes pouring in on the southern border. We’re going to ask Democratic Senator Tim Kaine about a number of border security measures his party blocked from even getting to a vote this weekend. He’s live with his side of the story, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Back to our top story, the deadly attack at a Moscow concert hall Friday, more than 130 people killed, many more injured. Vladimir Putin declaring today a day of mourning for the Russian people, as ISIS-K claims responsibility. That deadly attack coming just weeks after a warning from U.S. intelligence.
Joining me now, Virginia Senator Tim Kaine. Senator, welcome back to “Fox News Sunday.”
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Shannon, good to be with you. Happy Palm Sunday.
BREAM: And to you as well. I want to start with something that Senator Cotton referenced. This is some testimony from General Michael Kurilla, who’s the head of U.S. Central Command just days ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. MICHAEL KURILLA, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND COMMANDER: The risk of an attack emanating from Afghanistan is increasing. ISIS — ISIS Khorasan retains the capability and will to attack U.S. and Western interests abroad in as little as six months and with little to no warning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Do you agree with Senator Cotton that our porous southern border, where, again, we’ve already found 70 people on a terror watch list just this year alone, potentially opens us up to this kind of real danger on U.S. soil?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Well, Shannon, first, my heart goes out to the families in Russia that were affected by this. The U.S. did warn Russia. And Vladimir Putin gave a speech on Tuesday discounting the warning, saying we were trying to meddle and create confusion.
We also warned Iran a couple months ago about a potential attack by ISIS-K there. If you want to know the difference between democracies and authoritarians, we will tell nations if we’re worried about their civilians. Russia or Iran would never tell us if they had news that there was going to be a terrorist attack in the United States.
With respect to the southern border, the southern border is a challenge. That’s why, you know, since I came to the Senate, I’ve been part of bipartisan efforts to fix it again and again and again. But each time, whether it was bipartisan immigration reform in 2013, a bipartisan deal in 2018, or the deal we put together just last month in February, bipartisan who invest at the border, each time the Republicans torch it, Donald Trump even making plain the last thing they want to do is fix the border. They just want to, you know, raise a ruckus about the border. We need to get serious about fixes.
BREAM: So, the — Senator Cotton said that this administration openly repealed dozens of executive orders that had changed the numbers at the border. You saw the video. We’ve all seen it this week of what happened there when there were people who burst through the wire that they got to the Texas National Guard taking them on there.
“The Federalist” writing about it says this, “The video is shocking. It underscores not only how unstable the border has become, but also what has been true for a while now. This is an invasion. Unless Mexico is credibly threatened with concrete measures that would harm its economy, AMLO will not act to alleviate the illegal immigration crisis.”
Would you consider this an invasion? And is there more we could be doing with respect to pressuring Mexico?
KAINE: I don’t think it’s an invasion. It is an immigration crisis. It’s a national security issue. But I think you’ve got to be careful throwing around words like invasion. It was — it was that kind of wording that led the deranged guy to go shoot up the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, killing folks a couple years ago. And I think that kind of rhetoric is irresponsible.
But it is a crisis. We have to solve it. And we had a wonderful chance in February when conservative Republican Senator James Lankford negotiated with Democrats and the White House and his own caucus to come up with a packet of measures, really significant measures to control the border.
And then after we basically had a deal, Donald Trump said, don’t vote for this deal. We would rather complain about this for the next nine months than fix the problem. Donald Trump was willing to let more fentanyl come over the border, killing more Americans to try to gain a political edge rather than find a solution. We’ve got a good solution on the table. And we should act to do it in a bipartisan way.
BREAM: Should the President, though, use executive orders, executive action that he has available to him to stop fentanyl, to do what he can over the next nine months, whether he’s the next president again or not?
KAINE: Yeah, Shannon, I think he can do two things. I do encourage him to use executive actions. I don’t think he can do everything that was in our bipartisan bill by executive order. But there’s probably a subset of things he can do. And I think his team is considering it.
The other thing is the appropriations bill that we passed, that we sent to the White House early Saturday morning, included some significant increases in funding for things like detention beds and additional resources. He should implement those.
But again, if we could just get a vote on this bipartisan deal we put together, that’s more resources. Actually, the supplemental bill that is pending in the House right now that passed in the Senate has some additional resources. So there’s some issues that Congress, where Congress needs to act, and yes, where the president can act, I think he should.
BREAM: OK. So speaking of votes, you all did this late into Friday, early into Saturday, this last round of funding bills. There were a number of amendments that Republicans wanted to offer up that were connected to the border.
Again and again, you, along with all other Democrats, voted against getting to a vote on these amendments. But I want to talk about the substance of a couple of them. The first one was an amendment that would prevent people in the U.S. illegally who assault a law enforcement officer from obtaining legal status or citizenship. Why would you vote against getting to a vote on that?
KAINE: Shannon, I’ll tell you about all of the amendment votes. The House and Senate negotiated a bipartisan deal. And then the House sent it to us just hours before government was going to shut down at midnight. That included defense, and it included DHS and border security. The House then went home. Everyone left. So if we had voted for any of the amendments and they had passed, the bill would have had to go back over to the House. They weren’t there. Government would have shut down.
If you want to see a border crisis, shut down government and see how bad it is. So what we said to our Republican colleagues is, look, there’s a way to take this up. We can take it up as part of an immigration deal, but we’re not going to add amendments onto a bill and send it back to the House when they’ve already left town. You would have shut government down, and that would have caused both a stop in defense funding and border security funding. And that’s why most of us voted against all the amendments, because we knew it was essentially going to shut government down and hurt our country.
BREAM: But isn’t that what happens now? Isn’t this the way that we get the government funding is from cliff to cliff to cliff? And why the latest Gallup polling I think has Congress at 19% approval?
KAINE: Yeah, John McCain used to say our approval was down to friends and family. And after talking to his mother, he said, and maybe family can’t even be counted in. Doing this up against a deadline is not the right way to do it.
As you know, Shannon, we usually get a budget done by year end, calendar year end. This year, the House lacked a speaker for a big chunk of time in the critical period when we normally were doing the budget. So yes, that pushed it into March. We shouldn’t do that again next year. And when the House sends us the bill with just hours to spare before the shutdown and leaves town, at that point, you can’t adjust it or government does shut down. I’m always against shutdown. I mean, I live in Virginia. A whole lot of people depend upon government services. And then you’ve got issues like the defense and border protection. If you shut things down, it just gets worse.
BREAM: Well, there are a lot of folks out there in our recent polling. It’s not just us. It’s the New York Times and everyone else out there who says when they look at things like the border, they do hold this administration responsible. They think that President Trump is better equipped to handle it than President Biden.
There’s a lot of polling trouble out there. A “Washington Examiner” says this. “Nonwhite voters have deserted the Democrats. In 2020, Biden was 50 points ahead with minorities. Today, his lead has fallen to 12 points. All the surveys tell a similar story. Gallup finds that the Democrats’ lead with black and Hispanic voters has shrunk by 20 points since 2021 and seems set to shrink further for it is overwhelmingly younger minority voters who are deserting the party.”
Why is the President having so much trouble with numerous constituents he needed to win last time and he’s going to need to win this time?
KAINE: We’re a closely divided nation, Shannon. I mean, I’ve seen it again and again and again. I live in a state, Virginia, where elections are often very, very close and I don’t have any illusions about now to November. I’m going to be on the ballot, too.
I have no illusions that it’s just going to be simple. We’re a closely divided nation, but I’m very confident that when we lay out our competing visions for a future, Joe Biden building off unemployment falling, manufacturing jobs going up, people’s 401(k) is going up, lowest uninsured rate in American history.
We compare it with a Donald Trump who is urging January 6th protesters to be pardoned and using phrases like bloodbath, et cetera, to talk about what he hopes to do in a second term.
BREAM: Well, again, we talk about that phrase —
KAINE: I think people are going to realize how high the stakes are.
BREAM: We talked about that phrase last week and we think it’s important to have it in context that he was talking about the automobile industry, China, Mexico, imports from there. He said a lot of things that you could take — you could take issue with and those can certainly be debated, but on that particular one context, we think it’s important.
KAINE: Yeah, I’m going to be — I’m going to be a dictator on day one. I mean, you know, he has a way of saying these things that are super explosive and then kind of walking them half back.
BREAM: Does it not worry you then that with all of those things —
KAINE: But we saw in January — we saw in January 6, it’s much as worst.
BREAM: — going on, does it not concern you then that he continues to pull ahead of the President if he’s such a flawed candidate?
KAINE: I am concerned about the state of American democracy as we’re getting ready to celebrate America’s 250th birthday in 2026. But I believe American voters will embrace pro-democracy rather than pro-authoritarian and that’s the stark difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. I’m confident in the American electorate. I think we’re going to get it right in November.
BREAM: Well, it is ultimately up to those actual votes being cast. We know you’re on the ballot. We’ll see you on the campaign trail.
KAINE: Absolutely.
BREAM: Senator, thank you so much.
KAINE: Thanks, Shannon. You bet.
BREAM: Up next, tomorrow is the deadline for former President Trump to come up with a nearly half billion-dollar bond. Our Sunday panel joins us next on what happens as the attorney general there threatens to seize the former president’s properties and bank accounts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): And Donald Trump should be treated no better and no worse than anybody else in his situation.
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: This is going to eventually have to go to some judge who’s going to say enough. I mean, this really shocks the conscience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Democratic Congressman, Jamie Raskin, and George Washington University law professor, Jonathan Turley, on how former president Donald Trump is being treated by the New York court system.
Tomorrow is the deadline for the former president. His legal team is appealing, requesting a stay on the judgment in his New York civil fraud case. But that requires him to post a massive $454 million bond by tomorrow. Trump is vowing to fight all the way to the Supreme Court.
It’s time now for our Sunday group, Penny Nance, the President and CEO of Concerned Women for America. Fox News senior political analyst, Juan Williams. Guy Benson, host of “The Guy Benson Show.” And Susan Page, “USA Today’s” Washington Bureau Chief.
Good to see you. I consider this our Supreme Court.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: There we go.
BREAM: So we’re going to make some decisions here. OK.
SUSAN PAGE, USA TODAY WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: OK.
BREAM: Let’s talk about this case though back in 2019. This is Justice Ginsburg writing about these excessive fines and the idea of the 8th Amendment, cruel and unusual punishment, all of that.
She says, “For good reason, the protection against excessive fines has been a constant shield throughout Anglo-American history. Exorbitant tolls undermine other constitutional liberties. Excessive fines can be used for example to retaliate against or chill the speech of political enemies.”
Guy, does it go that far? Are we headed to the Supreme Court on this?
GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It very well might. You’d be the expert on that, Shannon.
But there’s a case to be made here. And I think it’s fascinating to hear that from Justice Ginsburg. Whether you’re a Trump fan or not, a lot of people view this judgment as punitive.
And they also see the case itself as highly questionable and political, because the supposed victims in this scheme say they weren’t victimized. And, yet, here’s this judgment against Donald Trump.
And I think underscoring the politics behind it is you have the attorney general in New York who campaigned on getting Trump, taunting him on social media about sort of the money he still owes and the interest that’s racking up.
And you have the president of the United States cracking jokes about this as well at fundraisers. I don’t think those are a great look for a lot of Americans.
BREAM: Well, also what may happen this week is Truth Social and this media group that’s come together may start publicly trading.
“Wall Street Journal” reporting about this saying that, “Investors have approved a plan to take Donald Trump’s struggling social media company public, putting him one step closer to a roughly $3 billion windfall that could end a financial squeeze that is weighing on his presidential run.”
And, Susan, we know he’s complaining about the money he says he hoped to use for his run. He’s now going to have to spend on this court stuff.
But does he pull, you know, rise-like-a-phoenix from the ashes with this public offering?
PAGE: Well, it certainly looks like it. What — I mean, what a win for $3 billion when he’s on the edge of this devastating judgment.
Although we can’t, I guess, cash in on this stock for six months, but it’s still —
BREAM: Without a waiver. So there’s a possibility of this waiver but —
PAGE: And it’s the waiver, yes. Could be so.
Now the idea that he’s going to invest this money in his campaign, seems unlikely. He didn’t invest his own money in his last campaign. He hasn’t really spent significant dollars of his own since 2016.
But it is an example of a guy who seems to just be incredibly lucky on the cliff of disaster over and over again. And yet somehow he manages to survive.
BREAM: Well, you mentioned the fundraising and he’s got some issues there, because we know that they spent — the figure is 50 million plus on legal fees, and those kinds of things last year. And a number of the people donated to him say they’re happy to do that because they feel like this is an attempt to keep them off the ballot.
But the “Washington Post” reports this that the Biden re-election campaign reported Wednesday. It’s got $71 million in cash on hand. More than double the 35.5 million — excuse me, 33.5 and a half million that Trump campaign reported.
“Then you throw on the bank balances of affiliated groups supporting the candidates. Trump’s campaign liquidity rises to $42 million.”
Sounds pretty good until you get to this. “Biden soars to a stunning $155 million. A ridiculous amount for this point in the cycle.”
Penny, there is a real fundraising issue.
PENNY NANCE, PRESIDENT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: Of course, and that doesn’t necessarily mean who’s going to win. Because remember in 2016, Hillary Clinton outraised, outspent Donald Trump, two-to-one.
You can never account for the fact that Donald Trump is magic in media. His earned media is worth billions of dollars every single year.
And I — you know, I think that they — the Democrats are going to need every dime of that in order to, because they’re behind in every single battleground state.
BREAM: Well, and one of the things that they think is a danger to them is this third-party run. “New York Times” says this, “Democrats are preparing aggressive counter to the third-party threats.”
“An army of lawyers aims to challenge the steadily advancing ballot access efforts of independent candidates who Democrats fear could peel votes away in swing states.”
So, bolstering democracy by keeping people off the ballot. That’s the argument, Juan.
WILLIAMS: No, no. I think — I don’t think that’s the argument. I think I’d be a losing argument.
No, I think they want to, in fact, increase Joe Biden’s chances of winning. I mean, clearly, a third-party candidate would more likely damage President Biden’s campaign than it would damage Donald Trump’s campaign.
But you got to keep in mind that no labels, which has been trying to find somebody, has largely been unable to do so. They’ve been turned down by, you know, even Chris Sununu, Larry Hogan, the former governor of Maryland.
You know, I think even Nikki Haley has said, you know, pretty clearly, she doesn’t want to do it.
So the outlier here is someone like, you know, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
BREAM: Mm-hmm.
WILLIAMS: But he might, because of his anti-vax stance, his conspiracy theories. He might take more votes away from Donald Trump than from President Biden.
I think going forward, you have to keep in mind, last, it was in 2020, he – – Donald Trump actually got a higher percentage of votes in a number of key swing states, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and the like Michigan.
But unlike 2016, there was no Jill Stein. There was no Gary Johnson as third-party candidates on the ballot to take votes away from the Democrat. And the result is President Biden was able to win.
So Biden’s team wants to keep that just —
BREAM: Mm-hmm.
WILLIAMS: — you know, keep any third-party candidate off the ballot.
BREAM: Well, I talked with Senator Kaine about the fact that he’s got real trouble. The current president does, with black and Hispanic voters. That’s the headline out of “Wall Street Journal,” an opinion piece there, calling it Biden’s worst nightmare.
But I got to get to this, because James Carville, who says he’s basically un-cancelable, has a very interesting piece out in an interview with Maureen Dowd over “The New York Times.”
He throws in this quote, “When I look at these polling numbers, it’s like walking in on your grandma naked. You can’t get the image out of your mind.” Guy.
BENSON: Well, thank you for that, Shannon.
BREAM: It’s like, I don’t want to (INAUDIBLE)
BENSON: It’s Sunday morning. Look, the polls are not great for the incumbent right now. And it’s not just a few national polls here or there.
PAGE: Yes.
BENSON: It’s all of the swing state polls at the moment.
Now, there’s an eternity between now and then. The Democrats are going to drop probably a billion dollars all in on Donald Trump’s head. Who knows what will happen on the legal front?
But this is a five-alarm fire for Democrats at the moment, which is why we’re seeing, to Juan’s point, an army of lawyers —
BREAM: Mm-hmm.
BENSON: — from the ostensibly pro-democracy party doing everything they can to keep people off the ballot, including in some cases, Donald Trump as well.
That’s kind of a tough sell again, saying, you must vote for us to defend democracy, and we’re going to sue to make sure there are not other options.
BREAM: Well, just eight short months to go, everyone. Let’s see who enjoys this general election fight.
OK. Panel, don’t go far.
Up next, President Biden’s push to make Americans give up buying gas- powered vehicles. We’ll bring back our Sunday panel on the politics of that electric plan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: The Biden campaign making a major push this weekend in battleground states focusing on healthcare and the 14th anniversary of the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare.
President Biden joining his old boss, President Obama and former House speaker, Nancy Pelosi.
Fox News correspondent, Lucas Tomlinson, live from the White House with the latest. Hey, Lucas.
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Shannon.
The White House is turning to former president Barack Obama’s signature legislation, passed over a decade ago, to give the campaign a boost.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The bottom line, healthcare is at stake in this election. And I’m confident when we make the case, we will win.
TOMLINSON: Obama delivered the following message in an effort to woo young voters.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now, the presumptive nominee for the Republican Party, for president, says he wants to repeal the entirety of the ACA. And that would mean kicking millions of young people off their parent’s health insurance.
BIDEN: This is going to transform the country in a way you don’t even understand yet.
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On a recent campaign stop in Arizona, the president announced one of the biggest investment in American ship manufacturing, alongside Intel’s CEO. Welcome news after the world’s largest chip maker, TSMC, announced in January it would delay opening its $40 billion chip factory until next year due to a shortage of workers.
Last week the White House announced new climate regulations aimed at promoting electric vehicles. And in a win for Detroit automakers, the Biden administration announced it would ease proposed regulations to cut productions of gas guzzling vehicles.
According to the recent Fox News poll, only 27 percent of Michigan voters consider climate change and extremely important issue.
The former President Donald Trump blasted the Biden administration on the proposed changes to EVs.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On day one I will terminate crooked Joe Biden’s insane electric vehicle mandate. We will restore law and order to our country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TOMLINSON (on camera): Three years ago GM it would phase out gas-powered vehicles by 2035. Then, last month, the CEO said it was amending that strategy after backlash from the public and lawmakers.
Shannon.
BREAM: All right, Lucas Tomlinson, live at the White House.
Lucas, thank you.
We are back now with our panel.
We have reaction from a number of groups who said a lot of manufacturers are tooling back on EVs because they can’t sell them, they’re sitting on lots, that kind of thing. But here’s what we’re told the new rule will do. According to “The New York Times,” it will require lawmakers – “carmakers to meet tough new average emission limits across their entire product line. Automakers could comply with the emissions camps by selling a mix of gasoline-burning cars, hybrids, EVs or other types of vehicles, such as cars powered by hydrogen.” So, a lot of different options there, Penny, but most of the public so far is not interested in that.
NANCE: No, these are cars they can’t afford and they don’t really want. To go from 8 percent to 68 percent in just, what, seven, eight years is just outrageous and bad for the economy. There’s a number of people that this disadvantages. Certainly, rural Americans, suburban Americans, people that commute long distances in. People that are farm laborers that need more heavy vehicles for, you know, for what they’re doing.
But also – and – and climate activists always are – don’t like this group, but Americans with large families, did you know that 5 percent of American parents have over five – five or more children? That’s, like, what, 60 million people at this disadvantage. They need sometimes passenger vans in order to haul the children around plus they’re safer. So, this – this is a problem for American families.
BREAM: Well, Daniel Turner, who is the executive director of Power the Future, it’s described as a conservative energy group, says “If EVs are as popular as Joe Biden claims, he wouldn’t have to force them through executive fiat or prop them up with taxpayer subsidies. With layoffs of workers, billions in losses, and CEOs losing their jobs, it’s clear the electric vehicle bloodbath has already begun.”
Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, look, the prices are coming down. That was the big news this week with regard to electric vehicles that the comparative prices are coming down. And as you know, part of this infrastructure deal that the president passed was to put in place more of these electric charging stations, which is something you hear from people who have the vehicles, they worry about being able to charge.
BREAM: There’s no backup or they can’t find them when they need them, that kind of thing.
WILLIAMS: Right. So – but the thing is, Elon Musk says, you know, Teslas are so popular – and they are pretty popular. You see them around more and more every day. And it’s not just popular with people who are climate change activists. It’s popular with rich people. One of the big counties out in Texas, it’s one of the most popular vehicles among Republicans.
So, I think that you have to be future looking here. And I think that’s what the president, Biden, is saying. We have to be future looking as a country. You don’t want China to take the lead here. You don’t want any other country to take the lead on what is coming, which is more electric vehicles given the high cost of, you know, energy in this world.
BREAM: Well, yes, and we – we’ve got questions about that too, energy production, where that goes, because there are different things that have to be tooled up, factories, you know, rigs that are pumping what people would call fossil fuels. It takes a lot. You can’t turn these things on a dime. So, people say they have to have expectations.
WILLIAMS: No, but we – we are – we are the top nation in the world for pumping just those fossil fuels right now under Joe Biden.
PAGE: And cars and vehicles are their – our biggest polluter, our biggest emitter of – of these emissions that are contributing to climate change. We had the hottest year in the history of the earth last year. This surely is of concern to families, large and small.
It is true that you need to convince Americans they want to buy these, but I think you look at this and if you care about climate change, this is one of the boldest actions any president has ever taken when it comes to climate change, but not at no cost.
BENSON: But –
BREAM: Well –
PAGE: At a cost in – in Michigan –
BENSON: And it’s not –
PAGE: Among union members, among – among some – some auto workers. So, it’s not – it’s not without a cost. But if you care about climate change, it’s something you think is necessary.
BREAM: Well, and –
BENSON: I would just say cohesion is not convincing. If you’re going to convince people because it’s a better product and cheaper, great. If the government is saying you must, automakers, make most of your cars this type now, which the American people at least currently don’t want, I think that’s a very big problem.
BREAM: Well, and I think –
WILLIAMS: Well, it took a while to adjust to seat belts. And I think took a while to adjust to, you know, miles per gallon and speed on the highway, Guy, but these are good things for America.
NANCE: Yes, but those –
BREAM: Yes, I’m still not –
NANCE: Those – those are tweaks.
BREAM: Confessions.
NANCE: Those do not hurt the economy.
BREAMS: I don’t exactly always comply with the miles per hour of the speed limit on the highway, but I love you, environment.
OK, something else that – on the – on the issue of coercion, Guy, to this, there’s growing pressure on Justice Sonia Sotomayor to step down. Now, to be fair, this is what she has said recently. “I live in frustration. Every loss truly traumatizes me, in my stomach and in my heart.” She’s talked about being tired and how being on the court is not the job right now that she thought it was going to be because they’re so overwhelmed with emergency requests and all kinds of other things.
But “The Atlantic” says this, “If she retires this year, President Joe Biden will nominate a young and reliably liberal judge to replace her. Confirmation of the new justice will be a slam dunk and liberals will have successfully shored up one of their seats on the court. In order to do that, they’ll have to get over their fear of being called racist or sexist or ageist.”
Juan, what do you make about this, because the last time there was pressure put on a justice, it was Justice Ginsburg and she dug in her heels.
WILLIAMS: Man, and that one still stings. You know, I mean, a lot of Democrats are hurting. And I think that’s why this conversation has some currency now. I don’t think she’s under any great pressure, but it’s the conversation.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg was 87, I think, and Sotomayor is now 69.
BREAM: Much younger.
WILLIAMS: But she has some health complications, some health issues.
BREAM: Which she’s open about.
WILLIAMS: Right. And so I think that’s why people are having these conversations. So, she has to think about it.
I wrote a biography of Justice Marshall. And, you know, people say, oh my gosh, if he simply let things go, you wouldn’t have Clarence Thomas. So, for Democrats, it’s a real issue.
Justice Bryer has a new book out and he talks about how this super conservative majority on the court right now is, in his opinion, changing the political credibility of this court to the negative. And he – he is worried about that conservative super majority growing.
So, I think there’s lots of real discussion about the future of the Supreme Court, where it’s going. As you know, they have a birth control case coming up.
BREAM: Yes, a big case this week.
WILLAIMS: That’s – that too, given what happened with Roe v. Wade is an issue for the American people.
BREAM: All right.
Ten seconds, Penny, because I know you’ve done a lot of these confirmations.
NANCE: Yes, CWA has been involved in 20 Supreme Court nominations and 16 confirmations. This is an important issue for us. I’m happy to have another one. But it seems like certain – certainly Stephen Breyer was coerced. But it seems like the women catch it harder. She’ll outlive the men by 10 years. And we’ll see what happens.
BREAM: So, you say she sticks around?
NANCE: I think – they cannot force her out. She’s got – she’s resolute. (INAUDIBLE)
BREAM: As you said, 17 years younger than Justice Ginsburg when all this pressure started.
OK, panel, thank you very much.
It’s been nearly a year since Russia detained Wall Street Journal reporter Even Gershkovich. His family describing the agony they’re all going through and the fight to get him home as the milestone approaches. That’s up next in our Sunday special.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: This Friday will mark a year since 32-year-old “Wall Street Journal” reporter Evan Gershkovich was arrested by Russian authorities, accused of espionage and detained ever since without a trial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIELLE GERSHKOVICH, EVAN’S SISTER: I’m sure you can imagine this has been a really difficult year for our family. It’s just a lot of uncertainty, and we just have to take it day by day.
BREAM (voice over): Evan’s sister, Danielle Gershkovich, speaking out of the National Press Club here in Washington Thursday, along with “Wall Street Journal” assistant editor Paul Beckett and many others.
Evan is the American-born son of Soviet-era Russian Jewish immigrants to the U.S., Ella and Mikhail Gershkovich. His parents taught him Russian as he was growing up in Princeton, New Jersey, a valuable asset in his work as a journalist.
On March 29th of last year, Evan was on assignment in Russia’s fourth- largest city, Yekaterinburg, when he was detained by the federal security service. He had full press credentials from Russia’s foreign ministry.
PAUL BECKETT, ASSISTANT EDITOR, “WSJ”: I would say the Russians, when they confirmed that they had him, and immediately accused him of espionage. And it was vital for us to counter that falsehood and his participation, along with the White House, which was also quick to very publicly condemn it and deny it.
BREAM (voice over): Evan became the first American journalist since the Cold War to be accused of being a spy, and was sent to the notorious Lefortovo Prison in Moscow, famous for imprisoning political dissidents and was the scene of mass executions and torture during the reign of Josef Stalin. He spends 90 percent of his time each day in a small cell.
ELLA MILMAN, EVAN’S MOTHER: We would like the U.S. government to do whatever it takes to bring Evan home. Evan is in Lefortovo Prison, the prison that designed to isolate and break you down.
BECKETT: We expect Evan will face trial. Given (INAUDIBLE), I’d expect him to be convicted.
BREAM (voice over): The U.S. government has official recognized Evan as wrongfully detained and has called for his immediate release.
President Biden says the U.S. government is working around the clock to bring him home.
Last month, Vladimir Putin said a prisoner swap was being discussed with Washington but refused to give a timeframe for a deal.
U.S. Ambassador to Russia Lynn Tracy visited Evan Thursday at the prison and says he remains strong in resilient.
GERSHKOVICH: Out of standing here one year, I’ve been reflecting a lot and it’s incredible to see this community of journalists rally around Evan. We’re so, so grateful.
We’re just going to keep believing that we’re going to get Evan home soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): And you can show your support for bringing Evan home by using the X #IStandWithEvan. You can also get updates on efforts to free him at “The Wall Street Journal,” wsj.com/evan.
A quick note. My podcast, “Livin’ the Bream” has a new episode today. This week I sat down with Oklahoma Republican Senator James Lankford. We talked about the fight to find common ground on Capitol Hill these days and previewed a look at Tuesday’s abortion case at the Supreme Court. “Livin’ the Bream,” wherever you like to get your podcasts.
That’s it for us today. Thank you for joining us. I’m Shannon Bream. Have a great week. We’ll see you back here for the next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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